RNA Based Supplements Options

[yowza]

Check out:
http://www.holisticheal.com/rna-products

There's a company out in Main that does a "Nutrigenomic Test" that tests for weaknesses in the methylation pathway. I know a number of chriropractors use this program (one at heartfixer.com). The genetic test is very interesting but expensive ($625). From this, you're provided a list of supplements to go along with certain genetic weaknesses. Problem is some of these supplements are very expensive. There are however, a number of supplements that can be tried out without running this test.

The Attention Support seems interesting. These supposedly work according to some people that have used these. I can provide further info. on this if anyone's interested. I see there's a number of people that have posted asking about focus enhancers. I haven't seen RNA supplements discussed anywhere so this should be interesting if these things actually work (there's a book on this that holisticheal provides that I'll end up getting pretty soon if my initial trial is successful).

[Mr.Bananas]

Do you know what the theory behind this is? Can you cite any studies made on RNA as a supplement?

Look at this: http://www.holisticheal.com/rna-products/a...rt-formula.html
And this: http://www.holisticheal.com/rna-products/a...rt-formula.html

They contains _the exact same thing_ but are still supposed to have different effects?
They they go on and say "does not contain yeast", well... Saccharomyces cerevisiae is yeast, google it.
Dont you realise that this is pure sh*t designed to rip you off? Buy piracetam if you want to enhance your cognition instead of wasting it on a hoax like this.

[4eva]

I read that RNA is in some supplements like maybe algae. Its not as concentrated though. Yasko seems to be the only one who says that taking RNA supplements from other species like yeast or algae can help to repair your RNA. This supplement is more controversial as a result. I was under the impression that her RNA supplements were recommended for general use to help prevent damage to your RNA. As far as being recommended for two different problems, I think its that the supplement may have different effects depending on your genetic makeup. For example, tryptophan can be recommended for some to help sleep and others for depression.

Her book isn't that easy to work with. It doesn't have a real table of contents - no page numbers. The TOC has only main sections listed. If you want to find something you have to thumb through the book. You would have to write in your own TOC to use the book efficiently. And there is no index. I think the book may have been self published because the publisher isn't even found from a web search.

But her info is useful. This field is still small. She seems to be one of the most active in terms of educating her patients.

You might check out the forum where her patients discuss her treatment and supplements.

Its something like ch3nutrigenomics.com.

I've seem other genetic testing and treatment company's products and they seem like powder that contains lots of food extracts that didn't make any sense to me.

The treatment for SNPs seems like fumbling in the dark with those other companiy's products right now; it is still very new and untested. I personally wouldn't buy supplements from her site but would get them elsewhere by using the info she provides and whats is in her book and on the web. A patient should have the option of buying supplements and any treatment products from where they choose.

But I think trying her supplements for alertness because that is something you have a problem with would likely be a waste of money. Any genetic testing based protocol is likely to be. complicated and needs numerous other supplements to work completely. I don't think you can pick and choose some of the supplements based on your own understanding of your symptoms.

But it is a big investment to get tested and try treatment with her. It also takes time which means patience besides a financial commitment. Her book has some problems but does have useful info for understanding this process to help you decide if this is something you want to try. You could definitely get a better understanding of this process from reading her book and searching the web (and her site and other sites focused on this new approach).

Honestly, I doubt there is really anyone who has finished this type of treatment sufficient enough to recommend it or even know for sure that it works. I definitely think this nutrition and genetic approach has promise but it is also still evolving.

[yowza]

Thanks for the input guys.

I've done the nutrigenomics test a while back when I had some more cash on me. I unfortunately haven't been able to try any of the RNA supplements though that were recommended in my program due to the cost however (I mainly looked at the other nutrient recommendations first).

I want to pick up Yasko's RNA book at some point but now am extremely strapped for cash. As a result, I posted on the ch3nutrigenomics board the comments that Mr. Bananna brought up to see what people using the program would have to say about that. I'll let you guys know what I hear in regards to that.

Her book isn't that easy to work with. It doesn't have a real table of contents - no page numbers. The TOC has only main sections listed. If you want to find something you have to thumb through the book. You would have to write in your own TOC to use the book efficiently. And there is no index. I think the book may have been self published because the publisher isn't even found from a web search.

What book have you read? It seems all of Yasko's books are written in a kind of scrambled manner that doesn't really connect the dots too well for the reader but contain alot of useful info. She goes from being very easy to follow to suddenly jumping all over the place (you almost have to take notes and reassemble the notes in a coherent pattern at certain points). One nice thing though is that if you buy any of the 3 starter packs (a book with a DVD) there's always a DVD that lays things out with Yasko lecturing in a hall. This can help alot.

I've seem other genetic testing and treatment company's products and they seem like powder that contains lots of food extracts that didn't make any sense to me.

What other company's have you seen?
Yasko seems to be the only one so far getting into this (other company's don't seem to have developed RNA nearly to the point that Yasko has).

Unfortunately Yasko's program can be very expensive. I fully agree with not buying every single supplement from them only the ones you find are better quality than others. For instance, the PS/PC/PE supplement provided through HolisticHealth is better than just buying PS.

Also, it's possible to get certain things compounded at a compounding pharmacy, which could make taking vitamins and minerals more convenient. This is one program that would proabbly be easiest if you did it through somebody that used it for input but didn't follow everything strictly (for instance, would use blood tests rather than just saliva, urine, or hair).

[4eva]

As a result, I posted on the ch3nutrigenomics board the comments that Mr. Bananna brought up to see what people using the program would have to say about that. I'll let you guys know what I hear in regards to that. What book have you read? It seems all of Yasko's books are written in a kind of scrambled manner that doesn't really connect the dots too well for the reader but contain alot of useful info. She goes from being very easy to follow to suddenly jumping all over the place (you almost have to take notes and reassemble the notes in a coherent pattern at certain points). One nice thing though is that if you buy any of the 3 starter packs (a book with a DVD) there's always a DVD that lays things out with Yasko lecturing in a hall. This can help alot. What other company's have you seen? Yasko seems to be the only one so far getting into this (other company's don't seem to have developed RNA nearly to the point that Yasko has). Unfortunately Yasko's program can be very expensive. I fully agree with not buying every single supplement from them only the ones you find are better quality than others. For instance, the PS/PC/PE supplement provided through HolisticHealth is better than just buying PS. Also, it's possible to get certain things compounded at a compounding pharmacy, which could make taking vitamins and minerals more convenient. This is one program that would proabbly be easiest if you did it through somebody that used it for input but didn't follow everything strictly (for instance, would use blood tests rather than just saliva, urine, or hair).

I have Genetic Bypass by Yasko. That seemed to me the one that is available through sources other than her website. I believe I got my copy from AbeBooks.

I think the yeast blurb is a standard blurb used by the company that produced that product. I would think it is just an oversight, a miscommunication, etc. That blurb or other similar ones are on almost all supplements. It seems like a minor mistake mot caught by quality control or some other control mechanism.

I think there are (or were) 12 companies that do testing. These companies do not work through a health care practioner. It is sold through a muli level marketing approach. I can't think of the names now but I can try to post them later of the two companies I read about on other forums. Genovations and Genewiz may be two of the 12 or not. There may be more than 12 companies now. I think the 12 were doing the MLM type of sales approach.

I thought that Yasko's deal is about $700 for testing and about $250 more for some type of treatment and explanation. The explanation of the SNPs is in written form and you may also get some DVD with it. I'm not sure if the DVD is a general one - meaning not simply about your SNPs but might be about all SNPs (that she produced for general use).
I thought this response (case study) was interesting. This person (consumer/patient) did not seem to understand completely her genetic info from Yasko (which is understandable). But the professional seemed to explain in fascinating detail some observations/comments about her/his SNPs and combo of SNPs.

http://www.chronicfatiguetreatments.com/wo...ome-case-study/

What did you do testing or the explanation and treatment too? I would be interested in your impression of the explanation.

This post has been edited by 4eva: Mar 13 2009, 01:22 AM

[4eva]

Its 13 companies not 12 that do genetic testing without any medical professional involved. And the way it is marketed is direct to consumer (DTC) not multi level marketing (MLM). (Although I'm not sure if those two terms are not interchangable in some situations.)

This link mentions some companies but I'm not sure if it mentions all 13.

http://www.genomeweb.com/dxpgx/will-other-...testing-firms-0

[yowza]

Thanks for the info. "4eva". I've known about the genovations nutrigenomic tests. These are good but unlike the Yasko program, they don't really seem to educate you on what they mean or where they fall into place. However, didn't hear about the others. Thanks.

I thought that Yasko's deal is about $700 for testing and about $250 more for some type of treatment and explanation. The explanation of the SNPs is in written form and you may also get some DVD with it. I'm not sure if the DVD is a general one - meaning not simply about your SNPs but might be about all SNPs (that she produced for general use).

I payed for it last fall and the Nutrigenomic test cost $625 plus maybe an additional $40-$50 for Fed-Ex 1 day shipping. This includes everything including the results packets you get back. This price is for if you order the test directly off thier website. If you were to do it through an outside practitioner that would of course charge extra just for you to go into their office and for them to read the results for you.

In case anyone's interested:
I got the "Nutrigenomic Starter Pack" (the DVD and book) in the mail when I ordered the test kit (along with a nutrigenomic testing catalogue that lists a bunch of additional genetic test panels that aren't even available but oh well). The test was really quite simple. They have a set of instructions along with some miniature "lancets" (bigger ones that actually work to prick your finger are available from the drug store) that you use to prick your finger with and fill in a few dots then ship to them with FedEx (all shipping material is provided with the kit) or another delivery system that can get the sample to them quickly.

You get 2 results packets in the mail. One is a packet that gives a very breif outline of what each gene means (talks about each type of SNP but doesn't really cover what each variation of each SNP is; for instance she checks for 2 CBS mutatioins but just generalizes what the CBS gene is in this particular packet). Within this same packet is 1 page devoted to your results, additional pages with supplements recommended for each SNP, and pages of small print research references (tacked on mainly to show they're legit probably). This first packet used to be called the "GAR", which was the same thing as this but just with a more personalized touch.

There's also a 2nd packet that contains supplement recommendations for supplements that aren't based on your genetic results. This includes what supplements you could take based off of various other biochemical tests (the book below in the paragraph below describes the basis behind this).

Another starter pack that should be ordered online is "The Puzzle of Autism Starter Pack". The focus of this book is obviously for parents of kids that have autism. However, I don't fall into this category and didn't buy the book for a long while due to the title. So I wish it wasn't so misleading... On her board Dr. Amy has said that it's not just for those who have autism but for anyone whose interested or wants to do her nutrigenomics program (This includes a step 1, step 2, and step 3 program based off of the nutrigenomic test). When reading the book I don't think it's important to take everything too literally since she really lists alot of supplements for each category (mainly for people who have more serious metabolic imbalances) but is interesting to look at all the options nonethesless as a guide behind the many list of supplements on their webpage.

I thought this response (case study) was interesting. This person (consumer/patient) did not seem to understand completely her genetic info from Yasko (which is understandable). But the professional seemed to explain in fascinating detail some observations/comments about her/his SNPs and combo of SNPs.

http://www.chronicfatiguetreatments.com/wo...ome-case-study/

What did you do testing or the explanation and treatment too? I would be interested in your impression of the explanation.

Hope, I gave you kind of an idea for how the process works in my explanation above. Of course there's alot more detail. The Nutrigenomic book is kind of out of date so Yasko (like in the results packet) doesn't get into address all the details that're currently being done in her test unfortunately but does fill in the basis behind her nutrigenomic program and how it works. Unfortunately, this means that her messageboard (at holistichealth.com) is absolutely vital to keep up to date on this stuff (At least they give you specific up to date supplement ideas for each category in the results packet that you get with the test though). Great link, by the way...

I think the yeast blurb is a standard blurb used by the company that produced that product. I would think it is just an oversight, a miscommunication, etc. That blurb or other similar ones are on almost all supplements. It seems like a minor mistake mot caught by quality control or some other control mechanism.

Well I got a reply back on this about the yeast issue:
Here's some info. I picked up about the yeast from past messages on her messageboard:

As discussed at the conferences as well as in a number of my responses to posts, the RNA is extracted from yeast but contains NO yeast at all. It is NOT a source of yeast. Having said that I do not consider saccharomyces to be an issue, but you can use Florastor, mycology support and candex if you like.

So in other words, the RNA may be derived from a yeast culture but has no active form of yeast in it. Yasko goes onto mention a number of other supports to prevent yeast overgrowth if this is an area of concern for someone (even though the RNA she has said doesn't contribute to this).

I'm getting abit off track here but:
If someone is concerned about yeast overgrowth, while they are safe with RNA, they should maybe wait on certain probiotics (like Floraster that Yasko mentions) until having a stool sample done in order to avoid skewing test results. Probiotics like Floraster (note this is not an RNA supplement) contain saccharomyces boulardii (not saccharomyces cerevisiae) which are benign bacteria meant to help balance flora in the gut but would register under as "saccharomyces cerevisiae"
on stool test since pretty much all of them (including the CDSA) aren't able to distinguish the difference between the two.

I'll see if someone will answer the other RNA question I asked later on.

This post has been edited by yowza: Mar 13 2009, 06:00 AM

[4eva]

Thats helpful to have an explaination of what you get for your money from testing with Yasko.

I think there is obviously a difference between those DTC genetic testing and Yasko's. And the difference being the other things you get besides the printout of your results.

Do you understand the difference between Yasko's RNA products and RNA supplements sold in health food stores? I think Solgar, for example, makes an RNA supplement.
I'm still under the impression that she recommends RNA products for repairing or preventing damage to your RNA. But I'm not all that experienced with her products.

[yowza]

Thats helpful to have an explaination of what you get for your money from testing with Yasko.

Great! I'm glad I could help out.

Do you understand the difference between Yasko's RNA products and RNA supplements sold in health food stores? I think Solgar, for example, makes an RNA supplement.
I'm still under the impression that she recommends RNA products for repairing or preventing damage to your RNA. But I'm not all that experienced with her products.

The RNA area is one part that I'm kind of confused by. There's a lot of information on the messageboard (and on yasko's website) but doesn't get too in-depth about how this RNA is made and why it's different than other types of RNA out there. This is a question I've been trying to figure out for a while. I suppose I should just get the RNA starter pack (book and DVD) and this will give alot more details or at least I'd know what questions are answered or not answered. There's probably some more info. on the RNA area of the program somewhere on her site or messageboard though... I'll see what I can find.


Anyway, here's a response to why the ingrediants appear the same on the RNA supplements on the website:

I believe the reason the ingredient list on each bottle is the same is that the actual list of ingredients is so long that it would not fit on the bottle, and that each RNA is a proprietary blend, so they do not list the ingredients on the label.

This pretty much sums it up.

[4eva]

Your comment about not having the funds now to buy RNA helped me realize what a financial investment this process is. Its not just the initial cost of testing, which is expensive; there are supplements and educational materials that are part of the ongoing treatment process.

And in reading your explanantion of the process (just getting the basic starter pack, for example) made me realize how involved the process is in terms of education. This is not for lightweights.

There seems to be so much information to absorb to work through the treatment process. I was aware that there is a balancing act - in that some needed supplements like sulfur can cause problems (with the CBS SNP) if not introduced at the right point. But the wealth of information involved in working through this can be overwhelming at times it seems. There seem to be lots of potential interactions with many supplements. So the process of adding supplements is complex and seemed slow to me but developing an understanding of the inter-relationship of different SNPs (for one thing) is a lot more complicated than I first realized.

I thought using a nutritional approach required extensive knowledge of nutrients (deficiency symptoms, interactions, etc).

I guess you helped bring home the point for me that this is not something I can decide to do impulsively because once I start it there is no going back or giving up on it. Its a serious investment in both money and time (intellectual attention really).

I've read some posts on her forum but I think your comments helped me get more of a birds eye view of the involvement it takes. I'm definitely not ready to get tested now but would like to in the future when I'm ready for the commitment it requires.

I would be interested in any updates or impressions or observations (in general terms) you care to post about.

[yowza]

The nutrigenomics starter pack you get with the test kit but the other 2 need to be purchased.

It is a big investment but I don't think that you necessarily are stuck onto the program once you invest for the genetic results. Once you get the results they're there for good unlike a biochemical test that can change on a yearly basis, SNP's don't change. This means that you can wait as long as you'd like to before supplementing.

What I did was purchase the nutrigenomics a while back and just kind of used it as a way to quickly see what my results were. Based off this I just looked at a few of the most important supplements and tried taking them to see what it was like.

All the supplements are mainly suggestions to provide a framework of where you'd fall under. I'd suggest anyone possibly interested in this program to get the "Autism Starter PAck" (that's actually not just for autism but for anyone whose interested in taking the nutrigenomic test Yasko has stated several times on her board), this provides a bit of background detail behind what the Nutrigenomic Test is a part of. Although, I don't think this book should be taken too literally; it's mainly just a loose guidebook that you can kind of sift through.





Back to the RNA's...

Some of them seem to have a noticeable effect. I've read some of the comments on the messageboard and there's actually a heavy metal detoxification protocol using the "metal RNA's" (explained in Yasko's starter pack). There's alot of parents who have a child that's taken these metal RNA's (or adults that have tried them themselves) and there are actual noticeable effects on the urine toxic metal tests. There's been some people who've been able to put down money for this on a weekly bases (note most people can only afford to do every 4-6 months) who've actually seen metals being excreted using these specific RNA's. There's also been people that have used the ammonia support RNA and have done blood or urine tests and have seen this goes down as well.

If I could, I'd buy 1 RNA (maybe "Methylation Support", Mood D, or "Attention Support") but this will have to wait for the moment.

[niner]

Is there any evidence that this stuff does anything other than separate desperate people from their money?

[Mr.Bananas]

Please, please, please, i ask humbly of you with greater knowledge than me, do tell me the theory behind this, and please provide some studies to prove your claims.

Please.

[4eva]

Sources of studies on the use of RNA products would be the following:

Antinsense.net

Antisense Research Development

AntiSense Nucleic Acid Drug Development.

Most of the research has been in developing drugs using antisense technology. Drugs are more profitable than OTC supplements.

[Mr.Bananas]

Sources of studies on the use of RNA products would be the following:

Antinsense.net

Antisense Research Development

AntiSense Nucleic Acid Drug Development.

Most of the research has been in developing drugs using antisense technology. Drugs are more profitable than OTC supplements.

Im sorry but i couldnt find any study at all at that site. I cant even find a company or institution that it is connected to.
This is no evidence that RNA supplements work, this is still just a fraud.

[4eva]

And there are no studies in both those journals?

[niner]

Antisense drugs are one thing, and bottles of unspecified mixtures of random organic gunk are another. Are there any antisense medications that are orally active? In clinical trials? Approved?

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